Taboo: Are vegans slow-witted?
Thanks aspire I was wondering when someone was going to touch on the dis-ease and illnesses that come with an animal based diet. I mean the normal core body temperature of a healthy, resting adult human being is stated to be at 98.6 degrees. With forty feet of intestine I highly doubt we should be consuming meat to get stuck in all those nooks and crannies, to only have a bowel movement 3 days later. If meat will spoil on your kitchen counter at room temp it definitely will do the same in your gut. I would have more to say but I remember when GONE RAW was so comfortable to log on and talk about raw, now it’s like a marathon, on and on people debating this lifestyle. A living foods diet may not be the perfect diet, but it is the best diet by far.
Peace and BLessings
yeah, ardesmond, you are so right!
i did remove my post very soon after writing it. i thought it could possibly ensue an argument, and i didn’t want that to happen. looks like you read it in that short space. anyway…i wish you well on your food journey.
in response to aspire’s post:
i believe the nomadic native americans who ate primarily buffalo to deep sense of connection to the earth and spirituality, not to mention the eskimos. even the monks in tibet ate/eat meat. all were/are very healthy. personally, i think whatever a person decides to eat, appreciation and honor is most important above all else.
i hear that you are concerned with the environment and resources. i too share this concern and actually do feel peaceful (even without being vegan) in the way that i eat. i get most of my food from the local farmers’ market who practice sustainable ways. i like supporting the ones that raise animals too. i believe animal husbandry has always been a key to a healthy farm and i enjoy the connectedness i feel when partaking in that. i also like the idea of re-establishing the old ways of eating and preparation and caring for the land. i don’t expect anyone or everyone to agree with what i have learned to be true in my perspective, but i think some can relate which i guess makes it worthwhile. i don’t think this should be turned into a battle of intelligence, but a search for common ground and sharing what we know and learned along the way.
Hi, Ardes. I’m a bit confused by your comment about debating. I always thought a ‘debate’ was when two topics were raised and each side fought to prove the other side wrong.
From what I’m reading here, this is a very open and polite discussion. So, being told that discussion isn’t welcome or is frowned upon is a bit like being kicked out of church for asking too many questions.
But if I came across as aggressive, I apologize. I still thank Red for a topic that was very open and helpful—to me at least. After all, a faith that can’t stand inquiry, is a shaky faith indeed.
Whoa this argument got heated since last I logged on here.
I don’t remember where I saw that info, but this is what I found now: http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-2337…
I’m not sure though… Pasteurized dairy products for better brain function? Really? Sounds silly…
By all means “NO” zooey I think me and a few other can say that we are more then addicted to your post, they have brought a new view point to this forum. Earlier, there was a post by locust girl where she speaks about a couple of things that have now been deleted, and I applaud her for doing so. Not that we shouldn’t have the right to say what we want on this forum, but there was something that she mentioned that I have to admit touched me on a different level, way deeper then this just being about raw food.
PEACE AND BLESSING TO ALL.
ZOOEY KEEP THE HOT TOPICS COMING.
i’m unsure what you are referring to.
the info that i deleted was a few questions to luna blu on her comment. i wasn’t speaking on or offering any information on a topic. were these questions what “touched you on a different level”? was there something else i wrote that i don’t remember deleting? you can email me directly if you don’t want to answer here. i’m comfortable either way. firstname.lastname@example.org
i really am trying hard to express and share what i know without offending anyone and appreciate the feedback.
Locustgirl no it’s totally cool, thanks for taking the steps to settle the matter. All is good, maybe at some point yesterday I was taking this all to personal. On my way to work today I kind of took a step back and looked at GONE RAW as a whole in a different perspective. I will ask this though, do you listen or watch or maybe even read a lot of material from Sally Fallon.
I was very entertained by this thread. An example that came to mind is Victoria Boutenko’s children, who attended college early – she attributes this to the high raw diet. Imagine how well we would have done in school/life if we ate high raw as children?? There is so much potential that is untapped.
That’s funny. Young people who are waiting at restaurants often don’t have the best diet. There is a good chance they may not be vegan. I remember eating at this place with many vegetarian things on the menu. The skinny long haired server brought my sandwich to the table. The bread had a corner missing on it. He told me that it was good so he thought he’d take a bite…...funny….but an instant way to turn my stomach.
The plant based diet I believe helps remove different plaques and build ups from your overall system improving everything. Concentration isn’t required, because answers come with ease. They have done studies with Alzheimers patients showing that green drinks improve their speech.
To : Zooey
From : Ardes
What’s up with that you trying to say I got some “naggage” going on. LOL :0
locutsgirl, thanks for clarifying! I am not one to argue! No worries!
I back up raw, but I believe the inclusion of herbal teas can be very rewarding. Steeping or boiling certain herbs and barks makes them more potent. For example Pau D’ Arco bark would not be at all affective if it were steeped in warm water. Including seaweeds as well provides the body with many minerals nutrients and yes some seaweeds have B-12. Kombucha is a way to restore ones intestinal flora while providing us with B-12 as well. The concept of veganism is incorrect. Vegans say that they do not consume anything that comes from an animal, yet the soil is composed of decomposed animals and the bees pollinate everything that we eat. In other words vegans are consuming small amounts of animal derived foods. Those who do not consume excess amounts of animal foods seem to be more in touch with their surrounding (nature). Are herbivores slow-witted? Absolutely not! Are they more layed back and very open? Absolutely! If you do not desire to be this way then choose your own path. Do what works for and more importantly do what FEELS right. Allow your heart to open and stop your mind from having complete control.
Nicely said, humanimal. :o)
Here yee! Very good!
I am vegan not because I don’t eat anything that comes from an animal, i consider myself vegan because I choose not to exploit animals. For milk, eggs, honey! Why do we drink the milk of another species after we have been ‘weaned’ anyway?! Just kinda icky and wierd if you really think about it!
Well we are strange creatures indeed :).
Ha! That we are. ;o)
I think it’s a mistake to stereotype. No one is 100% anything 100% of the time.
I do love an ecclectic mix to my person. So 123 does have that point but you can’t argue as well that some people are more 50% something. Which may be how we got the stereotypes to begin with. So are we on page 5 yet?
My girlfriend is actually 100% vegitarian! She has been since birth. She is Hindu, so that’s partly why, and the other part is that her parents went completely veg. before she was born for health reasons. She has never tasted meat. I am in awe of this!!!
People eat bugs and live organisms without their knowledge all the time.
No one is perfect.
Are we on page 5 yet? Chris and I would like to know!
slow witted arent the right words. they are i think more relaxed. who cares if the dude stood there for more than half a second unsure which bag was which.
Yeah Zoey, hyper down! :)
i understand the difficulty of not taking things personally. i’m happy to hear that you were able to resolve it from within and respect you for doing so…a sometimes rare and powerful skill.
yes, you are very perceptive, my studies for the last 9 (but primarily the last 4) are sally fallon influenced indeed. i met her when i was doing an herbal apprenticeship on a small farm with susun weed in ‘99. i’d been studying nutrition since ‘94 (acupressure and chinese medicine—healing with whole foods was my food bible back then before nourishing traditions). i now work for tom cowan, a holistic doctor, who also does conferences with her, so i’m pretty immersed right now. tom also uses raw cleanses with some patients and i’ve been experimenting with it myself which lead me here to the raw food lair. i’m very grateful for this as a resource for recipes and have already passed on the website address to help others. i think the creativity i see here is really fantastic.
as for my experience so far:
i’ve seen how patients have improved and healed on the nourishing traditions diet (no, there no ulterior motives to sell more of industry’s meat…a misconception i hear sometimes and very untrue) so i can’t definitively say that sustainably raised animal products aren’t healthful or cause harm when i experience this from others first hand. there are several in our community who restored their health this way. some were vegetarian or vegan previously, some not.
i have to say though, i think you all have an upper hand on the vegan concept. raw vegan seems a whole world better than some vegans since you all are eating real food; not soda, soy products, and candy bars. the organic whole fresh food is definitely a point of connect for me. perhaps this is the difference in how people ail, and how they recover. i’m sure there are plenty of recovery stories in your community as well.
food communities in general seem a lot like religion to me, and i certainly don’t want to get stuck in single-mindedness or exclusiveness…the “this is the only/best way” bit. i love hearing about other people’s experiences in life and food. no doubt i will clue into some new ideas here as well. i don’t tend to believe anything until i’ve fully researched for myself unless i have a solid true feeling about it right up front that can’t be denied. being here also challenges me to step out and view from a different perspective which helps to keep me alive. i guess i’ll stick around as long as there’s a bit of benefit of what i have to offer…or exit gracelessly if i get raw tomatoed off the stage.
you seem very sweet…thank you for excusing my blunder. i think our connection point is probably one of the more crucial and it was good for me that you brought it to the surface. there is nothing truer then our own intuition… (and nothing more powerful than our intentions).
i really like solidarity. you can hang with me anytime. i’m an sf baby with a mean kitchen. all four burners in working condition.
Locustgirl- I truly appreciate and admire your sincereness and gentle acceptance of people even after having your ideas or actions, what may have possibly seemed like, critcized. Oh that I can attain that level of gracefulness someday! :)
I do apologize for my statements if they seemed attacking in any way. I was simply stating my beliefs although am not so eloquent a communnicator as I would wish. I try hard to respect others’ rights to their own beliefs and actions on this journey. I am unashamedly vehemently and passionately against the killing of life when at all unecessary, as life is far too precious a gift to be taken lightly and not honored in our world and universe.
”... i don’t tend to believe anything until i’ve fully researched for myself unless i have a solid true feeling about it right up front that can’t be denied.”
—This I cannot agree with you more strongly! :) If only more people in our world would follow this, I believe it would be a far less unstable and violent world.
no need to apologize aspire. there has been nothing said in response to my post that i haven’t heard before or once believed myself. i didn’t go into this expecting that anyone would agree with my perceptions, and i know what a sensitive subject it is. it has been interesting and the interaction so far has been more pleasant than i thought it would be. a lot of gentle people about. i hear that we disagree on the consumption of animal products and necessity. i struggled with that at one time. when i was in my early twenties, i wasn’t sure if i should give up eating fish—i had given up everything else: meat, dairy, etc. i had a dream that a shark was chasing me around a parking lot. i then sat down on a curb and someone sat next to me asked if they could nibble on my calf. i said “no. you will just gooble it up without appreciating it”. i got a distinct feeling from that dream that appreciation and gratitude was more important than what i ate, and it was ok for me to eat fish as long as i was thankful to it’s spirit. i’m telling you this not to say that you should accept this for yourself, but to perhaps give you some insight on those of us who do and are thankful for the precious gift that we are dependent on for our well-being.
Well locustgirl, thanks, I try! Btw, love the boots! If they are made by TUK, I think I have the same ones !!Hang on mine have 4 buckles!
This thread is really funny. When I read the initial post I was thinking about the only vegan restaurant in town, which has since closed, which had the dumbest, slowest, wait staff ever. While I would have to remind myself it was unfair to stereotype them, they all acted (and looked) like they were hitting a bong between kitchen runs. I wondered if when these guys lost their jobs they went to work in Zooey’s local eatery.
The allegation that vegetarians are more intelligent may be because people with higher IQs are more likely to become vegetarians as adults:
Yeah, I was refraining from this specification but here goes—I do know what mellow is, and I do know what aloof is, and I do know what chill is. These are generally pretty sexy adjectives. Think Billy Holiday, think Marilyn Monroe… hell, Brad Pitt is pretty chill, right?
Okay, now that you all know that I know what chill is, let me tell you that the reason I posted this topic from the get go, is not because I was concerned about the connections between a raw diet, and suddenly becoming less neurotic, more relaxed, and easier-going. No, I was talking about becoming just plain dumb. I hate to be so harsh, and I’m expecting a backlash here—
“There are many kinds of intelligence, Zooey! I’m a genius at the hula-hoop!”
But I don’t think we need to get all defensive. This cat was dumb. I might go so far as to say he was stupid. He may have been the nicest guy in the world. He may have rescued a family of flies from a swatter two minutes earlier—he may fart rutabagas—but he was dumb, and I’m just being that guy who, like one of the remaining residents of Chernobyl, takes a moment, and asks the very simple question- “Does anyone else feel funny?”
And no, I’m not basing all vegans on this guy—just using him as an illustration.