I think you're ignorant, 40in8. I said it! LOL.

ouch!

medic!!!!

look, i'm serious. do you really want to get me started on cottonmouths?

:-D

when it comes to cows and chickens, i am the least ignorant person you are likely to meet here. your opinion won't change that. nonetheless, have fun. lol

When it comes to your application of your own traits/comparisons of such to other beings, you are clearly ignorant.

I've never had chickens but I heard many years ago that people aren't supposed to let chickens outside when it rains. (Just having the option for a shelter in the rain isn't enough.) I have no firsthand experience though and the source didn't either.

I don't care whether an animal is dumb as dirt or as smart as 40in8's Harvard-bound dog (LOL). The questions are not "are they smart or stupid?" It's "can they suffer? do they feel pain? do they long to be free from their servitude to us?"

And of course, "do I have a right to use their children, their flesh, and their bodily secretions just to satisfy my personal lusts?"

There's a lot of people I think are stupid, but I don't want to eat them.

not to break it up but...

i started eating raw eggs just over a year ago because of dietary deficiencies. it was a compromise, but i was in that position. it's working very well, but i do feel it is time to re-evaluate it. i've been raw for almost 2 years so i feel i'm probably in a better position now to experiment with other things and give it up for good... i need to educate myself more on how else to get whatever it is i'm needing.

i mix them into smoothies and it's actually richer tasting. i never thought i could do it at first, but then i realized that true eggnog requires raw eggs, and i heard back in the 50's they made 'egg cream's, added raw eggs to milkshakes and stuff like that...so i'm guessing it used to be pretty mainstream and ok as far as the public health goes? it's just such a foreign idea now. all i know is that i haven't got salmonella and it's going on 2 years...

i've wanted to mention it here but on a vegan site? i never dared!

but, reading these posts i feel i've already found a partial solution: and that is, switching to using them as a supplement type of food, if at all. rather than using them daily as i've been. i recognize that's too much, if only ethically. this has been on my mind but seeing it put like that... gives me something to take action on. i know my instincts are steering me away from using the eggs because it keeps popping up in my mind. thanks for bringing this up.

I have 3 chickens that we rescued from the battery farm. There is a great charity in the UK that sorts it all out for you and you collect your girls. They are amazing animals, they have the whole garden to play in and look amazing after starting out bald due to the poor conditions they were kept in. We love them like part of the family and they are very happy. My hubby isn't raw so he eats the eggs and I have made mayo out of the raw yolks. If we hadn't saved them they would have ended up as KFC or in a pie. I think it is a fantastic thing to do.

They are not stupid at all, they each have there own personality and bring us heaps of pleasure, we would keep then even if they didn't lay. They even come into the house and snuggle up by the rad's when it is cold.

Chickens Rock.

Well when all is said and done you can call chickens stupid and cows dumb..and they might be, perhaps they dont understand the concept of death and what may cause it like we do.

But lets face it, we might be the more advanced civilization but advanced is not neccaserily a synomyn for smart or intellegent.

A cow allows itself to dehydrate and die, humans smoke, drink heavily, eat meats and attery clogging foods and chemicals, we create bombs and weapons. So, we might know that snow = water, but that doesnt mean we're not killing ourselves (and the world) with our own stupidty.

Is this a vegan raw food site? I

Other species have a different kind of intelligence-not less intelligence. Are there any humans who can predict natural disasters? No wild animals died from the indian ocean tsunami that killed so many people. Some dogs can diagnose cancerous tumors with their noses. It's like comparing apples and oranges. I think all species deserve respect.

Kazzie-That's cool that you saved those chickens and you're enjoying watching their different personalities.

Wow!, you got a lot of feedback on your question and now I guess I'll add my 2 cents. Since I did not read all the responses, I hope I am not repeating too much of what you already read.
Hopefully I can relate a little more with you than some others since I too have been, or really still am a "gym rat".
I am not currently a vegan since I still eat organic eggs and certain kinds of fish, but only on occasion. Actually I am currently considering raising my own chickens so I know exactly what they are fed and how they are treated, but right now I pay a premium for what I hope are good eggs. I currently cook my them, but I have read that cooked proteins can be harder to digest so I guess lightly poached or raw would probably be the best way to go. I think the only main concern when eating raw eggs is salmonella. Just make sure to sterilize the eggs with some cheap vodka(get a big bottle since it has a lot of other practical uses around the house). A lot of the guys I train with are into the "Paleo" or "Caveman" diet. I think this diet makes a lot of sense, but allows too much of the wrong kinds of protein. I personally feel that if you are not willing to eat something raw, then you probably should'nt eat it. I know there are a lot of vegans here whom will give all kinds of reasons for not consuming any animal protein, but if you check out the natural diet of our closest relatives(apes and chimps)you will see that they do supplement their diets with various types of animal and insect proteins.

As far as milk goes, I guess its probably great for baby cows, but definitely not for human beings. A cow is a much different animal than a human being. What kind of possible logic can anyone give for consuming dairy products. And if you are an athlete, they are a definite no no. I just can't help but remember the commercial paid for by the Dairy Counsel with Serina Williams wearing on of those stupid milk mustashes. Since 90% of all African Americans are lactose intolerant to some degree, than how much more absurd can they be. Its all about big money and deceptive marketing and certainly not about presenting anything healthy.

Correction here, you can get salmonella from a raw egg even if the shell has been sterilized . Even from hens which appear healthy. Although this is less of a possibility with organic eggs especially if you use only the whites since they do not readily support the bacteria. Check out the link below.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dbmd/diseaseinfo/salment_g.htm#How Eggs Become Contaminated