My foray into raw eating
Thanks for sharing your journey. Quite fascinating! I would be interested to see how you feel following a raw foods diet more like the ones recommended by Becky Mauldin (Recipes for Life), Sally Fallon (Nourishing Traditions) or even the more commercial work by Carol Alt (Eating in the Raw). The raw food diet includes raw meat and raw dairy. I don't know if I am allowed to recommend such a thing on this forum but I eat this way (and have for some time) and feel great.
May your journey be blessed!
lively, i didn't know you could eat raw dairy. i've never been able to eat dairy because my stomach can't handle it. what kind of things do you eat raw? do you eat raw beef and stuff like that? i'm vegan, but i still like hearing how others eat. everybody in my house eats a SAD.
hey joannabanana- yep, you can: raw cheese, raw milk, raw kiefer, raw yogurt etc. Often times people who cannot handle regular dairy do well with raw. I do eat raw beef, seafood and eggs (but not chicken). Source is everything--clean, pasture/ grass fed animals is the only way you should do it. If you are interested in reading more about it, you can check out 'Nourishing Traditions' by Sally Fallon or go to: http://www.westonaprice.org/
As a side note, I don't want to upset anyone here-- I know well that this is a vegan website and I value the community and wonderful recipes I have found here... I wouldn't have mentioned it but thought the info would be useful and interesting to Rawskeptic. :)
oh yeah, forgot you asked what kinds of things I eat. raw meat and dairy are only a small part of it-- the rest is raw fruits, veggies, sprouted grains and seeds. normal stuff. I try to eat a wide variety of what is in season.
Thanks for sharing your journey. Quite fascinating! I would be interested to see how you feel following a raw foods diet more like the ones recommended by Becky Mauldin (Recipes for Life), Sally Fallon (Nourishing Traditions) or even the more commercial work by Carol Alt (Eating in the Raw).
I've read Weston A. Price's Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, and I know that from his research, he found that all healthy civilizations ate some raw meat and raw dairy, a thought that seems to have been channeled through Sally Fallon (of whom I'm a much smaller fan, but I still like her work). I'm convinced that most of my problems from this diet is from lack of protein intake and lack of easy digestible calories, and raw meat and raw dairy would be able to solve both of those problems. I think I'd be highly interested in trying the raw diet, but this time with inclusion of raw meat and dairy.
The raw food diet includes raw meat and raw dairy. I don't know if I am allowed to recommend such a thing on this forum but I eat this way (and have for some time) and feel great.
May your journey be blessed!
And yours too.
I have had some implicit thoughts about your postings from the start, even your name says a lot about the outcome of your scientific experience : I think it may already be determined from the start !
I'm somebody who personally hates the biased conclusions that formed the basis for the dietary recommendations for America. As a member of a raw vegan board, I'm sure that you agree that the Food Pyramid should more appropriately called America's Tombstone.
I had a hypothesis that a raw vegan diet was not optimal for health, and this is just a science experiment. I prepared for the diet by studying forums (such as this one) to see what exactly thrilled people about the diet so that I could copy their positive attitude. I hope you don't think that I've come to any biased conclusions, because I've tried hard not to.
Your book recommendations sound fascinating; I will be sure to look them up and possibly get back to you with my opinion. :)
I know the 80-10-10 people say you should just eat more fruit, but doesn't that seem a bit counter-intuitive? If you need more protein and more calories, I would think nuts and raw gourmet food would be the way to go, as it is caloric and has more protein than fruits and vegetables.
Eating more fruit will certainly not help with the protein problem, but it should help me get more calories in, as fruit are fairly high in calories and extremely easy to digest, especially when blended.
80-10-10 may not agree with me, but I would say to add more raw gourmet food made with flaxseed, sunflower seeds, walnuts, hazlenuts, and sprouted beans.
I looked into sprouting beans, but it seems like that even sprouted beans are high in antinutrients, including ones that inhibit protein absorption. Do you have any information/sites so I can learn how to sprout beans and seeds and make them healthy for raw consumption? I have a bunch lying around that I would like to use.
Rawskeptic- I thought you might be familiar with Price's work! The last thing I would say (and the reason I mentioned all books that are good cookbooks) is that finding really good recipes is key for any type of culinary (or nutritional) endeavor. I know other people here have mentioned it, but enjoying your food is just as key to well being as what goes into it. The sky is the limit with raw food recipes! You seem clever and innovative in your research so I am sure you will be able to wield that power in the kitchen! :)
Aviatrix- your skin positively glows! I'm inspired that you've been raw 6 years, i look forward to health improvements after being raw for a long time.
Rawskeptic - I simply must agree with what aviatrix says "Passing judgement on this liftetyle after only 21 days isn't really fair as it takes your body a long time to adjust to the diet."
That statement is true. I transitioned to raw in 2007, and i ate almost entirely raw vegan food in 2008. The health benefits showed up after being raw for a long time (1 year transition + 2 months eating only raw food) - after that point, I really saw a huge increase in energy, fewer colds, more motivation, improved mood, better digestion, etc. Before that 1.2 years? I had lots of ups and downs. Periods of high energy, and others of very low energy. For the past year, i have experienced steady improvements in all the things i mentioned above - because i maintained a very high percentage of raw food in my diet.
Anyway, best of luck rawskeptic - i hope you give raw a full year trial, to show you what it can do for your health!
Just thinking about you today and your experiment... I know you wanted to see if you felt great with this diet and kept up strenght and energy, but what about the long term benefits? I was just thinking if instead of seeing how a month goes at age 15, what if you did it till you're 40 and see if you then have the circulatory system of a 20 year old instead of a 55 year old, which is possible on a meat and dairy diet. I'm sure you could extrapolate from that idea, to what I'm suggesting- sort of a mega experiment with your body. I think you'd only have good things to gain, but I know that's a far jump from where you started. Anyway, positive thoughts coming your way. Have a great rest of this weak on raw vegan!
FYI: There are a lot more than "2 schools of thought" in the raw community. :)
After trying many different "book diets" over the years, I started my current path 3 years + 9 months ago. I wasn't researching the raw diet or following someone else's rules, just eating intuitively for my health. Within two weeks, I was eating a diet of raw plant foods, raw cheese & cooked meat (fish, chicken, beef = all natural), and a couple of things I thought were raw but really aren't, like Manna bread, oat groats, etc. I ate quite a lot of salmon & other meat the first several months, and now I don't eat very much. I may go back to it; I don't know.
"Sometimes, I'm tempted to just eat like 10 tablespoons of honey to get easy calories in, but I think we can all agree that wouldn't be a particularly healthy thing to do." I don't agree at all - the first summer I ate like this, I remember I ate a 5-pound container of creamy honey in less than a week, and it only improved my health! I don't do things like that all the time, but if the honey "hit the right spot" for you, then maybe that is what you were needing!
Yeah, please do.
You could even get a general book about Epistemology/Philosophy of Science to introduce you to all the debates about inductive/detuctive logic, science as cumulative knowledge, etc.
I'm with you Angie; I think eating intuitively is very important. We all are different!
Learning what is healthy is also important, though, as is getting your system clean enough to recognize what is the right "voice" inside to trust. (That little voice that says pig out on a bag of oreo's isn't exactly intuitive eating!! lol)
Hahaha! Yes! I forgot to mention that I already had done quite a bit of studying about nutrition, and that I spent the first few weeks praying constantly for God to help me want what was good for me! :)
so by intuitive eating logic, should i scarf a pizza when i feel like it? i question the intuitive eaters when the results are not only not raw, but not vegan. is that what this site is about? is this Rawskeptic's quest?
i believe in eating what you feel within reason and don't mean to sound dogmatic about this, but this is a raw vegan website. you might check out the intuitive eating website down the road...you know, its the one that says "if you feel like eating a fellow mammal, the one that has feelings and the capacity for pain, go ahead because your body is always right and it would never tell give you a bad idea or lead you astray."
anyway, Rawskeptic--we are awaiting your results.
*snarf slurp crunch chomp* Yum! Blood, guts and pus!!!
even better is the image of suckling on a goats teat.
Sick? It'll make you sick!
You mean you have meat? Or fat? Because raw sources that have a lot of protein are mostly fat. Meat is mostly fat too... Just curious. I used to be a high protein high fat cooked fooder and I found it to be kind of unsustainable raw, because the protein sources were all like 70%+ fat.
Hmmm, yes, this is a vegan site, and to my knowledge no one has posted a recipe here containing meat. Neither angie nor I have told Rawskeptic to go eat a piece of meat. (yes, I've seen others in some threads tell folks to do just that. I disagree with that, here on a vegan site.) What angie did say, and I have said several times in various threads: listen to your body!
You, Rawk, ask "is this Rawskeptic's quest?" Honestly, I don't think any of us knows for sure what his quest is. Quite frankly, I am with carnap on this one: The name he has chosen to identify himself lends the belief that the outcome is pre-chosen. Is that intentional? I don't know. No, I don't think any of us, except Rawskeptic, can know for certainty what is Rawskeptic's quest.
Also, your (Rawk's) comment "go ahead because your body is always right and it would never tell give you a bad idea or lead you astray" was already disputed with my previous comment about oreos.
And, quite honestly...what I find really unbelievable, and common, on this site is vegans who are graphic about animal consumption! That, I find way more vulgar than someone simply stating that it's ok if it takes someone an adjustment period. Going in feet first 100% all at once is not required. Nor is it ever required. Every one is different. And every one has the right, and responsibility, to listen to their own body and their own needs. Take no one's gospel as your own, without deciding whether it is right for you.
aviatrix79: "I don't eat intuitively at all, in fact if I'm craving sugars, I usually have some protein instead."
They way I see it, you are listening to your body and giving it what you feel it needs. Personally, I find that very wise.
I stumbled upon your topic and I am very impressed by your maturity. I saw at the beginning of the thread that you are 15 years old? Your writing and your dedication to the right and healthy thing is very impressive for someone at your age. Please do NOT lose these gifts of yours. I too was very much like how you are and for me, it was easily lost when trying to "tone it down" for others. You are very intelligent; keep it up. :-)
I didn't read all 3 pages of the topic, but I hope your diet is going well!
aviatrix79~ I am not the site owner, nor am I a mod. But in my time here, I have encountered several non-vegans. I have not noticed anywhere anyone being told they are not welcome. I am fairly certain that any raw vegan recipe you (or anyone) has to offer would be welcome here.
One of the things I enjoy about the raw community in general, is that, for the most part, it is an accepting crowd. The die-hard-100%ers, particularly those demanding everyone else be, are in the minority.
c'mon lets not go martyr on this party. eat all the fish you want, i simply was trying to say that when allowed to "eat intuitively" some would choose less healthy than others. i just find it bogus, that is it. every other species on this planet eat exactly as his or her brethren do, but for some reason humans are a better animal that need a diet to be specific to his or her own needs. eat what you want, but don't make it all mystical and esoteric by labeling it "intuitive". puke.
i would guess Rawskeptic's quest is to see if raw is better as he set out in his initial post. to assume anything else is exactly that....assuming. so ill take him at his word and see what his findings are. will it change my mind personally, probably not, but i like to see people trying new things and expanding their boundaries. most just think you are bat shit crazy when you tell them you eat raw.
regarding the graphic stuff, i guess some people like to shock people into waking up by use of "vulgarity" and this is an open forum, so have at it. there is such a disconnect in this country between farm and dinner table. show them how it got there...could someone person support that mechanism if they really knew? free range this and grass fed that...let them see behind the scenes. how can you honestly make an informed decision unless you really know? that's all i got for now.
"every other species on this planet eat exactly as his or her brethren do"
Have you not known of animals who didn't eat something that their brother did eat? Perhaps you've never encountered much time around pets, but I certainly have seen animals eat differently. (and I am not just talking commercial pet food here. I am also referring to pets on a species appropriate raw diet.)
dogs, and pets in general, are bred by humans and have been domesticated for thousands of years...they eat nothing like their wild ancestors--unless, of course, you are setting your dog pack free in the pastures.
i was speaking of wild animals, not animals that we control.
I don't control the cat that lives here. She was a stray, and hung around my door for about a year (and no, I was not the one in the neighborhood feeding the strays. Some one else was, so she wasn't hanging at my door for food.) One day she just walked in, and decided to stay. I've moved twice since then in the past nine years, and brought her with me. In the for-what-it's-worth department, I am not a cat person; I am allergic. She chose me to take care of her, and I am doing that, to the best of my ability. Which includes feeding her a species appropriate raw diet. Yes, like her ancestors.
aviatrix79~ I think you may have gotten a bit mixed by my post. I am not vegan. I have been in the past. I, like you, would be hard pressed to find a site that caters strictly to they way I eat.
I highlighted the word vegan and mentioned the word vulgar, because a post was made that apparently was offered for shock value (more graphic than the word "meat"), and followed in same said post with something to the affect of "go vegan". This isn't the only post I have seen here on this site (nor other vegan sites) to be similar. I just simply do not understand it. (EDIT: perhaps you missed the post, since it coincided closely in time with one of your own. I did not highlight the word vegan in response to anything you had posted; That particular post of mine was in response to Rawk, and zinfandel.)
I am not positive (without reading back into the posts, to see if there was someone else prior) but I think it was Rawk who first, in this thread, pointed out this being a vegan site -- and seemed to be asking non-vegans to go elsewhere.
I am of the belief that folks should eat as they see fit. Do some folks eat in what I feel to be a selfish manner? Do some folks eat in what I feel is an unhealthy manner? Sure, on both counts. But it's not my place to keep them from their choices. It pains me when I see folks on this site (and elsewhere) who feel like they have failed for "falling off the wagon", or see some folks who feel the need to judge others because they don't do 100%.
Thanks, aviatrix79, I do what I can.
that cat that was hanging out by your door is domesticated. pixx, because she was born feral doesn't all of a sudden mean she is wild. that's like saying a chimp born in a zoo is "domesticated." no, its not...if it had the chance and was angry it would tear someone, literally, limb from limb.
i feel you are skirting the issue with anecdotal evidence. even so, you are feeding her a "species appropriate" diet...is this a diet that could be fed to all cats of her same species? i think you are proving my point for me.
ill put the post, that i thought was fairly innocuous, but has caused all these feelings of persecution to rest with this analogy...if there were a website all about pacifism and its benefits and someone logged on and said, "well, im going to try pacifism and see if it works for me." well the next day there were all these posts about how a little war isn't bad and actually a lot of war is fine as long as its what's intuitive and it hasn't been cooked, i might think those people were trying to justify something.