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Honey VS. Agave Nectar...what's the difference?

Okay, so the fact of the matter is that I live in Canada and very, very far away from a desert…however, the raw honey is readily available here. I’m wondering what all the craze is about with this agave nectar…??

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Comments

  • Agave nectar is a plant derived product.

    Honey is an animal derived product.

  • I personally prefer agave. Its much easier to mix into cold drinks- it dissolves almost instantly. And the sweet taste is quite neutral while honey has a flavor. I think Agave also is cheaper than honey. The non raw version that is.

  • rawmamarawmama Raw Newbie

    I love the taste of both raw honey and agave. Agave tastes like the red candy coating on candied apples to me :) If I am going to put it something that I am going to eat right away, I’ll use it. I have had a problem with agave turning bitter when on fruit that is not eaten right away, and have only heard one other person mention this also. So, if I am going to store something in the fridge, or take it somewhere later, I now always use raw honey…my favorite is orange blossom, that flavor is delicious! I do like Yacon, does taste more like molasses and is supposed to be actually “No Glycemic.” I know that we heard Brian speak, Brian Clement from Hippocrates Institute, and H.I. does not support use of agave, H.I. supports use of Stevia as a plant based sweetener.

  • I like the taste of agave so I was disappointed to read the following excerpt from Dr. Mercola’s book, Sweet Deception.

    ” To explain the truth about agave syrup requires a recounting of history… In the early 1980’s blue agave was grown only for tequila and mescal distilling. Growers felt that they weren’t making enough money selling agave at fifty dollars per US ton, so they pooled their money to build a processing plant to convert it into hydrolyzed high-fructose inulin syrup (similar to HFCS). Then they introduced the new agave syrup in 1997 at the Anaheim Natural Foods Exposition, stating that it was an “all natural sweetener used since the Aztecs”. They did not reveal that it was a chemically converted fructose…..

    (there are 136 species in all) when these species were investigated, they were directly linked to toxicity in humans; they cause breakdown of red blood cell membranes, and as little as two grams can cause spontaneous abortion in a pregnant woman.

    The agave distributors have also been caught relabeling tankers of HFCS as agave syrup….

    Is it dangerous? No one knows. It’s impossible to tell if the product is derived from toxic agave plants, or (if it) is HFCS. But even if it’s “only” hydrolyzed inulin syrup, that kind of processed fructose has all the adverse effects of sugar, plus it is more readily turned into triglycerides and fat than sucrose.”

    If you want to know more pick up the book.

    At the very least unless you know exactly how it’s made chances are excellent it’s not raw. Personally, I use honey or dates or figs. Whole foods, whole.

    Please understand a low glycemic index does not necessarily mean healthy. Fructose of any kind rates lower because it doesn’t cause insulin to be released. However, if the body doesn’t uptake it or use it for energy right away, it gets stored as fat and can cause a rise in triglycerides. No where in nature do you find fructose alone in high amounts. So unless you are burning a hugh amount of energy after eating a dessert with large amounts of either yacon, or agave, don’t be surprised when your pants start “shrinking.”

  • Alrighty then….I guess I won’t be putting “agave” on my shopping list any time soon.

    I think I’m going to stick to my raw honey.

  • SystemSystem Raw Newbie

    The thing to always consider, I think, is that all foods have a cooked and raw version, I think. All things start off as raw. In the processing, sometimes it is cooked. So, it is important to make sure one gets the actual raw version. Some agave is pure and raw. Plus, how would organic agave plants be “toxic”? Plus, there’s nothing wrong with processing food as long as you maintain it’s purity, rawness, and taste, I think. Here’s what I believe to be the best agave out there although I have not tried this brand yet- still using the www.sunfood.com one: Ultimate Real Raw Organic Agave http://www.alissacohen.com/shop/product.php?pro…

    BTW- I love raw agave. I like how it is plant derived and tastes just as good as honey. Besides, honey is processed by bees. Agave is processed by humans. So, in effect, we are the worker “bees” in agave production. And the factory is our “hive”. :D

  • deborahanndeborahann Raw Newbie

    Thanks for the heads up Brenilou. I unfortunately bought a pretty large volume when I bought my agave when starting on this path and if I finish this batch, I probably won’t get anymore because I really do like the honey. It’s infuriating that these co.’s get away with blatant lying about how products are produced.

  • kandacekandace Raw Newbie

    There is also the option of using dates to sweeten a recipe. Best of both worlds – raw and vegan!

  • Now I am wondering if the Agave gel (juice) that I am now taking for heartburn is also suspect. I got it at the local healthfood store. Do you know of any problems with the gel (from the fillet in the middle of it)?
    Marcy

  • I can no longer use agave. I get really bad heartburn and chest pain when I use it. I’m also sick for 24 hrs after I use it. I have tried all different brands even the “absolutely raw” brand from Alicia Cohen. I thought maybe I just had an intolerance to agave but I’ve met a couple of people who also have adverse effects from it, weird???.

  • Mairzee, I don’t know about the gel. Have you tried raw apple cider vinegar in a little water for your heartburn? Some people find it helps.

    Yuna, a plant’s toxicity has nothing to do with whether or not it’s organic. Some plants by their nature, mushrooms for instance, have different species that are safe to eat and others that are highly “toxic”. Same is true for different types of oregano. It would be great if every food manufacture had scruples when it comes to such things as caring about our health, but alas, this is not so.

  • SystemSystem Raw Newbie

    Brenilou, very true. Now I understand what you mean. Raw agave is not “chemically converted fructose” like the article says, however. Raw agave is the gel of the cactus core dehydrated into a thick syrup. It’s very simple. I, of course, agree that some companies are unscrupulous and lie about their manufacturing and purity of their product. For instance, I used to buy Madhava agave off of www.amazon.com but I found out from www.volcanicnectars.com that it is not certified completely raw or organic. You can read up on that at the site.

    I still don’t see where there is any proof that organic agave cactus leaves are “toxic”. First of all, who tested all 136 species of agave plants to find out if they were toxic and how did they test them? Did they process certified organic agave in a raw way? Usually these scientific research experiments are totally cooked. If they test cooked agave on people and find it is toxic, then that makes sense. But I doubt they tested verified raw agave on people. So, I would need better proof that organic raw agave is actually toxic.

    Next, the guy says they relabel chemically processed agave as natural. That’s why it’s so important to know your source. I mean, there are chemically processed unpure honeys, too. Honey is not automatically purer than agave, it depends on the company, I think. Some honey places cook honey, add chemicals to it to filter it, and think about the nasty chemically processed sugar that they give to the bees to make the honey. If the bees are making the honey after being fed cooked sugar, what is going to be the quality of the honey? Not very good, I think. It’s like putting harmful pesticides on conventional fruit and vegetables to “grow” them.

    Spirit, the agave couold have stimulated the body to do extra cleaning because of it’s rawness and pureness and if you are still eating some cooked food, the cleansing reaction might feel worse. That’s the impression I’m getting from your reaction to it. Sounds like it’s doing it’s job to make you healthier by cleaning out the bad stuff in you, however, it may feel too intense at the moment and so I agree, use your best judgement. :)

  • shgadwashgadwa Raw Newbie

    What about other sweeteners??? I personally, have not tried them all. Never yet used Agave or stevia but mainly use honey and molasses. The honey usually is not raw as raw costs much more money. I have been thinking that stevia might be the cheapest. Stevia and then molasses. Because stevia is like 200 times sweeter than sugar, costs like $8.00 for a 2 oz. bottle and it is believed to last a long time. I like honey as it has a neat flavor and me, being vegan, I have nothing against using it. The bees would die otherwise in the wild too. But, sometimes the great honey flavor or that amazing molasses flavor is just too strong of a taste for that recipe. Like, I never liked honey in my herbal teas because…it makes the tea taste like honey, not the herbs that are in it. I hear that stevia has a bad aftertaste that people just get used to. Also, that it does not do good when it is heated up to 350F. Which is a problem for me as I am not a 100% raw food eater. I think it would be okay to eat a little cooked food but it should be kept to a minimum. Soooo, does agave heat well for those that bake break every now and then? They say it is cheaper than honey. I think because I love the flavor in bread and pancaked, I might just use molasses. I make an amazing waffle every now and then that is made from unstrained nutmilk , whole wheat berries ground in the blender and unsifted, and molasses. Then it has your usually, baking soda and I use a banana or something like that for the oil. It is very good, crunchy and tastes amazing with the help of molasses, cinnamon and nutmeg.

    I just need to decide what sweeteners I am going to use if I do use them. Seems like different ones are good for different reasons. Also, molasses when ordered, is not that expensive.

  • rawmamarawmama Raw Newbie

    Raw honey is not expensive here in PA. Have you checked your yellow pages for bee keepers or apiaries? Buying direct from a bee keeper would really cut down on the cost of what a grocery store charges. Ask your local health stores. And there are more mild flavored raw honey available, depending on the flowers the bees are “into” at the time, ask the bee keepers for the mildest flavored recommendations. Have you tried Sucanat? I use that as a sugar substitute when baking and in some raw food dishes. According to the raw food books, like Juliano’s book, it’s a raw food. Molasses, even though cooked, has a much lower sugar content, like 60% compared to 98% of white sugars, so if you are going to be cooking something, at least you are using a lower sugar content item :) I also like to soak dates in water overnight and use the date water for a sweetener…sooooo sweet!

  • Here is another link for “raw” agave.
    http://www.living-foods.com/articles/agave.html

    By the way, Rawmama, this is compleatly off topic but, I couldn’t help but notice you say you’re from PA. I’m currently living here in the Pittsburgh area. Nice to see other “locals” on the forum!
    Peace

  • rawmamarawmama Raw Newbie

    Hey there chakra essence, we always like finding people in our state, even if it is a few hours away, it makes us feel connected with others that are enjoying the same foods as we are. We are close to Harrisburg & Philadelphia :)

  • Hollis, i see from your webpage that you are in richmond hill. loblaws sells raw agave nector in the organics section, and i actually find it less expensive than the raw organic honey and the agave at other stores.

  • I don’t use honey because it is not vegan. I soak dates and then blend them with water to make a syrup.

  • Thanks for your post about ‘raw’ agave nectar brenilou. I am about 80% raw and just had a miscarriage yesterday at 10 weeks. I loved to have raw agave nectar or a little stevia in my green smoothies. Just to be on the safe side, next time I am pregnant I think I will stick to whole foods like dates and figs instead.

  • SamiliciousSamilicious Raw Newbie

    First of all, Sedona- oh my God I’m so sorry to here about your miscarriage.

    Secondly, I agree with you about the dates and figs because its too stressful for me to have to worry about which sweetner is raw and which is unraw. I’m going to start making homemade date syrup by blending dates with water. But I might have honey occasionall as well.

    Has anyone tried using figs as sweetner in the same consistancy as honey, agave, date syrup, etc? Perhaps blending them with water in the blender? Oh, and I should add, I mean dried figs (at the moment, at least) because fresh figs are far from being in season in Vancouver.

  • Figs are such a great idea! I picked up some sweet dried figs at an organic farmers mkt down in hollywood, FL last weekend and they would be perfect for making a home made concoction. Even the turkish figs at whole foods are probably sweet enough. I feel much more comfortable with the more ‘natural’ kind of sweetner since I know where it is coming from.

  • Hi Yuna:

    I came across the same info spread by Volcanic Nectar about Madhava, and it appears that they were lying about Madhava (who’s been around since the 70’s) in order to grow their relatively new company with much higher prices and false claims of ‘blue agave’ being superior to other agave plants. Turns out that the blue agave plants’ core must be cooked to extract the nectar, while the plant that Madhava uses can be siphoned similar to maple trees! Here is the culmination of the discussion on Amazon. Simply amazing the tactics companies will use to sell!

    http://www.amazon.com/Not-Agave-Nectars-Are-Equ…=cm_cd_pg_pg7?%5Fencoding=UTF8&asin=B000FMZMN8

    In reply to an earlier post on Feb 11, 2008 9:27 AM PST Last edited by the author on Feb 11, 2008 10:58 AM PST Robespierre says: This thread should not exist.

    I’ve looked at people’s profiles on this thread: most are completely blank. If people here are disinterested users, then where are their Amazon reviews? Where is their non-agave-related activity? I myself have written reviews and have a buying history and a wish list. If this thread is the creation of the Amazon “community,” then where is everyone else’s user trail?

    DNS: Volcanic Nectar’s marked and relentless unfairness is clear from the opening post of this thread, which Oaks admitted was created by his company. It is announced by the initial tone of this thread—placed on a competitor’s product page—which B. Oaks, again, admits his company started.

    It is amazing to me that Amazon hasn’t deleted this thread entirely—since when is one company allowed to slander another on a product page? Absolutely disgusting—this is the one reason I’ll never buy anything from Volcanic Nectars or anyone associated with them.

    As a person who was interested in buying agave syrup for personal use, I read the beginning of this thread, was disheartened by the claims of impurity in most brands of organic agave nectar, and held off buying Madhava or any other brand for weeks. That’s the level of discouragement and distrust Volcanic created.

    Then I resumed reading and finally got to this confession from Oaks, the contact person at Volcanic:

    “In all honesty, I didn’t start the thread under B Oaks but I continued adding to it once the questions were too difficult for someone here in the office. I suppose that if we wanted to deceive people on purpose my name wouldn’t have been used at all. The thread was added to let people know what was really going on. For the most part I’m too busy to spend a lot of time debunking each and every myth out there. There is a new agave reseller popping up each month and I know our secretaries are getting calls each day asking which companies are legit and which ones aren’t.

    (emphasis added)

    There you have it: The thread was created by a competitor of Madhava on Madhava’s product page by a Volcanic representative posing as a normal user, who then masquerades as a revisionist trying to correct “misconceptions” about a “new agave reseller” who has just “popped up” (a particularly loathsome choice of words, since Madhava predates Volcanic). Am I angry? Absolutely: I’m deeply offended to see this Nixonian smear campaign applied on another company’s product page. When Oaks and others from Volcanic began this thread, they had users’ trust and interest. They have since worn out their welcome.

    This thread should be deleted and Oaks should be banned from posting on Amazon in the conceivable future. The thread’s purpose—to disseminate disinformation, spin and slander against a competitor—should not be tolerated for one more moment on Amazon.

    Where are the moderators? On a normal forum, this thread would have been shut down at the first admission of dishonesty and mercantile self-interest.

  • rawmamarawmama Raw Newbie

    makeda13 The link for amazon doesn’t work. It shows up broken in your paragraph above. Could you please retype it, even if you break it yourself manually onto 2 lines and I will copy and paste it into a new window manually? I guess it is too long of a link??? Thanks :)

  • rawmamarawmama Raw Newbie

    makeda13 The link for amazon doesn’t work. It shows up broken in your paragraph above. Could you please retype it, even if you break it yourself manually onto 2 lines and I will copy and paste it into a new window manually? I guess it is too long of a link??? Thanks :)

  • evergreenevergreen Raw Master

    hi everyone…you may like the agave from www.organicnectars.com

  • SystemSystem Raw Newbie

    Hi Makeda13! :)

    Thank you for your research! :)

    However, there are other things to consider, i think. Free speech means that people can talk about what they consider to be their truths, i think. The people at Volcanic nectar did not conceal themselves and readily admitted to being in employment at Volcanic nectar, i think.

    Secondly, I and other people have compared Madhava to sunfood agave. I tried sunfood after i sent my rawfoodist friend a sample of Madhava and she said she liked it but she said sunfood tastes better. I think sunfood resells volcanic nectar, although i am not positive. But I was actually comparing the wholesale prices of volcanic nectar to sunfood, and they seemed similar in price structure. Plus, the agave I got from sunfood is repackaged under their brand name.

    I think Volcanic nectar is actually cheaper than madhava. I liked madhava for a long time because it was so cheap, but if you get the agave directly from the volcanic nectar web site, you can get massive deals, plus free shipping over $25.

    I also read all of the volcanic nectar and madhava literature as well as various threads and resources I googled. So, i am inclined to believe Volcanic Nectar’s claims, although I am still open to more information.

  • kevin7197kevin7197 Raw Newbie

    Bees are animials? I am honestly unclear how honey isnt’ vegan since it’s not an animal product but whatever, I rarely touch the stuff anyway, lol. I like the suggestion put forth by Kandace. Dates are raw, vegan, economical and abundant. Although I have been in the habit of using agave, I think I’ll try switching out with dates and see if I like the results. I definitely like the appeal of peace of mind!

  • well, yes, bees are animals…

    personally, i use honey, although i do understand the argument that it’s not truly vegan, fine then, i’m not truly vegan. i buy local raw organic honey from beekeepers i know to be honest and sustainable, and i don’t believe the bees are in any way tormented. i mean there are those who would say i am not vegan because i have a pet dog.

    anyway, i use honey over agave because i love the taste of honey, i believe it is nutritionally superior, and it helps with my allergies. i’m not really a true vegan anyway, because every now and then i have been known to eat a little sushi fish or raw dairy. supermodel raw foodist carol alt eats animal products.

    i know this is a vegan website, so i would never post raw animal foods here (except honey, which people can substitute as they like.)

    anyway, i use dates quite often, and make date syrup too, so i only use honey for smoothies, or if i run out of dates.

  • achin70achin70 Raw Newbie

    I trust sunfood.com’s dark agave, or naturalzing.com’s. The Ultimate Brand is clear agave, and I believe’s is more glycemic than the dark varieties. :)

  • KrystaleKrystale Raw Newbie

    Honey isn’t vegan, but bees aren’t animals. They’re insects. And, as my husband pointed out, it’s an “animal” by-product, something they made. Not like milk or eggs which come from inside the animal, although it is for the similar purpose of sustaining young.

    However, living in Vermont, the difference between Agave and Honey is the carbon footprint, as they say. I can get raw honey from real wild fields just a few towns away. It also costs less as a result. I think it would be great if there was a way for people to hook up local product exchanges. Like our local honey for… I don’t know… someone out there must get cheap chia seeds or some such. You know?

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