Gaining muscle mass on 100% raw
First of all, let me introduce myself. I am a 19 year old guy and I am going to college taking Business. Switched to vegetarian from being a milk, egg, and meat eater about 6 - 7 months ago. Then I switched to becoming total vegan about 3 - 4 months ago because I found out the truth about cows milk and commercial eggs. After switching Vegan I decided to go Raw Vegan which was about 1 month ago, but shorlty after I implemented non-raw protein powders and other 'muscle building' powders like glutamine, creatine, pre-workout nitric oxide shakes, and various pills. All of the supplements I have gave up about 3 days ago, but just not to long ago I had an organic hemp protein shake. I plan on returning the unnatural supplements to a big online healthy business for raw organic products in which they carry. I am definately planning going 90%+ raw and as organic as possible because it is only logical for my health and over-all well being.
Ok so I have just made the switch to a very high raw diet not too long ago, and I have some questions I need to ask.
The first question I will ask is "Is it possible to gain muscle mass and size on a raw vegan diet?"
I am unsure on what is out there that is totally raw and preferrably organic that works like a charm to help assist the growth of muscle mass. I know that eatings lots of fresh fruits. fresh leafy greens, sprouts, seeds, and nuts will supply me with lots of high quality protein and amino acids, but I am wondering if raw foods alone can supply me with the enough amino acids and protein when considering that I wish to gain muscle mass when working out at the gym about 3-5 times a week.
The second question I have to ask is "Are raw plant protein powders such as organic hemp protein and sprouted rice protein necessary for muscle gain?
Currently I have a few protein powder supplements which include of : Wheat Protein Powder, Spouted Rice Protein powder by Source Naturals, Organic Hemp Protein Powder, and Pea Protein powder. I am unsure if these protein powders are necessary or not for muscle gain. In my opinion any protein powder is not natural and therefore it must be taxable to health in some way. including the hemp protein powder. - So it must be that raw organic whole hemp seeds must be healthier than the powder, possibly even healthier when sprouted. Personally, ever since I have completely gave up the powders, which was about 3 days ago, I have started to feel slight detox symptoms, and now I am starting to totally recover. That right there is possible evidence that the protein powders arent the best...
To sum it all up.. I am wondering if it possible to gain muscle mass sticking to whole natural foods without the use of ANY supplements at all.. and if so, are fruits, vegetables, sproutes, and nuts/seeds enough or are there other natural foods out there that will help? Like sea vegetables, maca powder, cocoa powder, or any other things.
Thank you all and I will greatly appreciate advice and support!! :)
Wow it seems you have learned a lot about "the truths" quickly. I was vegetarian for 2 years before going vegan (but I rarely ate animal products when vegan anyway) and vegan 1.5 years before going raw. I have been high raw for only a few months and right now I am the rawest I have ever been (90-100%). When I went really high raw a week or two ago I was more pushed into it by a new year's resolution to go to the gym more and a raw diet makes me superman in the gym. I have noticed so much better performance in the gym I could almost go all day running. It seems like you are really serious about muscle, it is important to put cardio first so you are more well rounded.
I have noticed recently with eating raw protein is not a bother and it seems because the food has so many enzymes and is so easily digestible muscle is forming in no time because the protein and blood building minerals go straight there other than trying to be broken apart by the body's enzymes which take hours. My suggestion for protein is not to rely on powders but try to eat whole plant foods and maybe a little powder. I make a smoothie right when I get home that has a tablespoon of soaked flaxseed and 2 tablespoons hemp protein powder (it's cold milled thus raw, and its cheaper than whole seeds for some reason) then I add plenty of greens and fruit which also have protein. The important thing is all living food has protein.
I rely on a lot of greens to keep me going, as of right now I make around 3 smoothies a day each with at least 3 oz. of greens like lettuce, romaine, collard, spinach (dark leafy are the best) and I usually put some flaxseed in there. I think the best thing to do is eat plenty of whole vegetables especially greens. Salads are one of the best post-workout meals I have been eating 5 oz of baby greens some parsley, with 2 avocados, dulse, and tempeh. I have also had some sprouted legumes like lentils and chickpeas after but a salad makes me feel more complete. Sprouted legumes don't agree with me too much and its best to limit them (acidic).
Eating enough plant foods will most of the time provide you more than enough protein and it is more bioavailable in its raw state. I have seen some raw athletes who eat only fruit (durian rider), so unless you are a body builder don't worry about it too much.
Check out these sites if you have not already:
http://www.thegardendiet.com/storm2.html (Storm Talifero has been raw vegan for decades, doesn't use protein powders or supplements or even a dehydrator, and is an athlete. As you can see, he's in great shape and is at least 60 years old)
http://www.runningraw.com/ (Tim Van Orden's site--he's a raw vegan athlete)
http://foodnsport.com/ (Dr. Douglas Graham's site--he's a proponent of the 80/10/10 raw vegan diet. His regimen is extremely popular with athletes)
No food regimen can make you gain muscle, if it could body builders would in the kitchen not in the gym.
With that said all you need to gain muscle is an adequate training program and a diet plan that provides enough calories. So you have 2 choices eat fruit for your calories or fat. Fruit happens to be one of the best after workout meals and your muscles run on glycogen so i think it should be an easy choice.
P.s. Return the protien powders to the store, they will not help you gain muscle and are a big waste of cash. They also put a big strain on your body to process all that unneeded protien
WhiteApple, what brand of hemp powder do you use? The selection here in town is not great (although at least it's available, so I can't complain!), so I'm just wondering if it's something I should order online. Thanks!
Yes the diet transofmrations has happens relatively quickly for me. About the performance, yesterday when I was at the gym, I had so much energy! I quit the protein powders a few days prior to that workout and I believe it's the raw foods and the elimination of the supplements I was taking.
Yes I believe the sprouted protein powder is better than the nonsprouted, but I am unsure of how easy and nutritious the protein powder is because it's not fresh and alive like whole foods. And for green smoothies and salads, I find they are farely energy boosting, but they don't compare to raw fresh fruits (for me). Even sprouts from red clover, radish etc. they dont compare to fruits. As for fats, I usually thrive on about 30-40g of fat per day, and about the same in protein, rest of the calories from fruit carbs.
About durian ride, I watched a few of his videos and he looks fit! I saw a video of him running and holly can he ever run fast without stopping.
I give great thanks for all of the resources! In the past I have checked "The Garden Diet''s website and I'm amazed of his health! About Running Raw, are most or all of those athletes raw? They look extremely healthy and fit! Foodnfit.com is somewhere I will possibly order some books in the near future. I want to get the 80/10/10 book for sure.
A quote from the website "Thegardendiet.com"
"All of the fruit juices and vegetable juices contain apx. 2.4 percent protein which is the same ratio that mother's milk contains." Evidence right there!
Thanks for the advice! I definately have a feeling that I should only worry about getting enough calories, than worrying about the protein - because fruits and veggies have the necessary protein to build muscle if I get in enough calories.
The website 30bananasaday.com looks very interesting! I think I will check it out and maybe consider joining it.
I will be returning all of the powder but.....
I will be getting in-store credit, the website I ordered it from is Bodybuilding.com
I dont know what I should get in return for my instore credit! Can someone help me choose? All you have to do is go to bodybuilding and go to the store link, and help me choose the best raw organic supplements!
I am thinking about getting organic flax seeds, coconut oil, maca powder, spirulina, and thats all for now, but I dont know what I should get from there..
THANKS alot for the input guys!!! Greatly and truly appreciated!!
PS. Just had an organic gala apple and an organic granny smith apple after a 18 hour water fast, and I feel great!
Edit about the 30-40g of fat anf 30-40g of protein per day... it might be actually less than that when I feel best. I have to do some experimentation on my diet and how I feel.
I get it at Trader Joe's, its $10 for a pound which has 15 servings of 8 grams. At one of my local health food stores a half pound of hempseed is like $18 and I forget how many servings but since I don't use my own money for my stuff I try to save all I can. I always put about 2 tablespoons of flax (4 grams protein) as a "just in case" in my smoothies if the protein powder is fully bioavailable. And the greens I put in there with the fruit I figure its enough protein. I do have tempeh in my salads for the protein, minerals, and taste.
I probably eat more than 40g of fat but I think thats okay. I don't eat much before the gym it makes me have lag but if I eat it at night it is still stored there and when I eat fruit the sugar seems to get it going. I feel as though I need a good amount of fat to keep going this is just what I have found works for me.
I saw this video of durian rider and a lady was biking beside him when he was running and she was going 18 mph and barely keeping up with him and he still could talk to her at that speed
I saw your profile is your last name really butterworth if so your diet taken your name is sorta ironic.
@shawn get the flax seeds and use them sparingly imo
Yes sometimes if I add a little more fat than usual I get better recovery, but I try not to over do it in the fats. I really find that having tons of fruits also aids in recovery, especially the raw leafy green vegetables.
Yes Durian has extreme endurance. Many people call him skinny and stuff on youtube but if they actually knew how damn fast he can run and how much stamina he has, they would be extremely surprised. They dont know that endurance athletes dont look like the average jacked up on steroids bodybuilder. Endurance athletes need to be lean and fit. Plus there are raw vegans who focus more on weight lifting, and they have more of a bulky look because of what they do.
About my last name, why is it iron, because it has the word 'butter' in it? Lol.
I am going to get the flax seeds definately, I also want to get some raw organic almonds, cashews, and maybe coconut oil im not sure, I also want to get some stuff from the website to add flavour to my green smothies, I know the powders arent natural but I need something... :P
I'm not a guy but since starting 100% raw ten years ago I have lots of muscles. I work out out in a gym 3 times a week, play a lot of tennis, hike and people ooh and ahh over my muscled arms and calves. I am in fantastic shape because of the diet, working out and physical activity. I take no protein powders or any supplements and I can’t see that it’s needed. I'm in the Portland Oregon area and there is a group of vegan bodybuilders with some raw fooders among them. They all look great to me. I learned some time back that protein doesn’t build muscles; in fact we can get too much of it - that it's exercise that builds muscles, not protein - although we need to ingest some naturally, naturally - which I get in fruit, veggies and lots of greens! I still eat 100% raw foods -- haven't had any meat or dairy or any grains for that matter in the past 10 years. Find other local raw body builders- the Portland group may know of some others to share info with. Save your money on the supplements and invest in more raw foods. That should do it-- in my opinion of course. Kudos to you for working out!
As long as your lifting with the usual staple compound exercises such as bench press, over head press, deadlift, squat, bent over rows and a few of the supplementary such as dips, pull/chin-ups. Then your hitting every muscle group and ensuring there are no imbalances.
But the key to gaining muscle mass is always consuming excess calories, if your not consuming excess calories you wont put on muscle period. Raw protein powders such as vega thrive, raw rice protein, hemp seed powder etc is a good way post-workout to get a quick source of protein in you.
there's a lot of great insight here. i am looking to do a fitness competition raw. i've been raw for 2 years with a couple of relapses, but i know i feel better when i'm raw. it's just easier. i'm looking to connect with others that are exploring or have insight on raw and competitions...anyone?