Definitely Not a Palin fan
Rawleen, I understand the point you were trying to make, but where it lost a bit of momentum was the fact that the comparisons were between the Presidental candidate of one party with the Vice Presidential candidate of the other. They will obviously have very different roles when one or the other assumes said roles.
I must admit it (along with Dagny’s) was a cleverly written little piece, but didn’t quite hit it with the fullness of point that it was intended. Of course, as has been stated in media, Palin IS one “heartbeat” away from being President should McCain be elected. ; )
Questions for everyone:
1. What do you think are the MOST IMPORTANT issues of our time in this country?
2. What are the things that you think will “make or break” us as a nation?
3. What do you think are the most important qualities in a LEADER (more specifically, leader of this country)?
...because they couldnâ€™t keep their legs shut.
What an incredibly horrible way to talk about women. Seriously. Wow.
Wow, lots to catch up on after a day! :)
DagnyTagart- wow. Great post a couple of pages back regarding why should we give up our rights, etc!!
And Bubba6- excellent stuff!!
Jaymz72- holy mackeral! I was all with you until that HORRIBLE crap you posted referring to ONLY WOMEN being at fault for having sex and getting pregnant! What in the world are you thinking??? Can you really be that amazing, archaicly small-minded??!! I hope it was a joke, but even if it was it was in entirely horrible taste. Ugh. I cannot believe you typed that bullsh* t. Beyond disgust for you now.
And finally, Kevlar- I’m right there with you on the whole 9/11 thing being machinated and brought about by some in our very own gov’t. Beyond horrifically sad and insane, but then these people who have been manipulating so many of the wars, world happenings, Fed Reserve, European World Bank, Bilderberger group, Trilateral Commission, AMA, FDA, Codex Alemtarius, and many more groups they hide behind do not think like normal humans. * I do not believe everyone in our gov’t is evil, nor even aware of what is truly happening and been happening for generations now. * Some are aware and way too scared by these poweful-beyond- normal- imagining-people and groups to say anything. Some become greedy and hope to be invited into this “Elite” group. But most are just not aware or willing to accept what seems unbelievable “conspiracy,” just as most people do not.
But Kevlar- the women here who have stated they are against banning the right to have an abortion, do not say it because they believe it is ok to kill babies and are gung-ho for that. They/we simply realize it is a bigger wrong to ALL people, living and yet to be, to give the gov’t more freedom to take away the rights of us citizens it has slowly but steadily (and completely underhandedly in GWB’s case- Patriot Act) been eroding over the years, as you must surely realize being up on the issues beyond what we see in our mainstream media. Have you read the first page of posts Kevlar? And as far as the two parties being the samae- I agree. I was ALL for Dennis Kucinich, and still love that guy. Unfortunately at this point, I feel voting for a third party will only be giving my vote to McCain and I cannot allow that to happen. And I hold hope that Obama is coming in under the radar and/or is a decent man who will still fight for the United States citizens- the backbone citizens, the poor and middle- class, not simply the wealthy as we have had for the past 8 years plus – and for keeping gov’t small and treating ALL humans equally and fairly. I hold faith he will step up to the plate and do what is best for us ALL, not like the Bushes, the Clintons, and so on.
I respect your opinion on abortion, Aspire. It’s a very divisive topic that is used by the mainstream media to keep us fighting with eachother, while ignoring more pressing issues, such as the Patriot Act, etc… and this whole Sarah Palin saga, while highly entertaining, is also just another distraction.
I was a Ron Paul/ Dennis Kucinich supporter during the primary season, and I followed the election very closely. As long as Diebold voting machines are being used to count our votes, we have no say in this country (voting machines can be hacked in under 5 minutes). Any which way you look at it, our votes will be wasted, so we might as well just vote our consciences.
Obama, McCain, and Bush, have stated, time and time again, that Iran is the “largest state sponsor of terrorism,” which is a total lie. They have also stated that “Iran is developing nuclear weapons,” which is another lie. See video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-366125…
If you want to know the real reason for the proposed invasion of Iran, all you have to do is look at the list of the world’s largest oil reserves: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves
Iran is number 3 on the list, and Iraq is number 4.
I respect your decision to vote for Obama, but I can’t just vote for the lesser of two evils anymore.
If any of you haven’t seen the documentary “America: Freedom to Fascism,” please watch it here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-165688…
It has nothing to do with 9/11. It just explains how our country has been taken over by corporations.
What you have presented so far Kevlar makes sense. I used to think the countries we live in are run by decent upstanding people but when people dig for the truth (HIV may be just another myth) it becomes very elusive or those that can give us the other side of the story just disappear. e.g I hated Saddam, but he was disposed of mighty quickly after being found – would he not have had more time to amass a defence/appeal if he had been a western ally? I think people on this thread think I am a troll, but actually I am a woman who admires a great deal about the US and would sooooooooo love to visit it, but that doesn’t mean I have to agree with GB or my own country’s leaders (I certainly didn’t vote them in). The films by Michael Moore reflect some of the things I have discovered through a retired couple, who went on anti-war rallies and had worked in the Middle East and Africa. I did not agree with absolutely everything they said but again, they had experienced things I knew nothing about. They had read not only from the Bible but also the Kuran. Guess what? the Kuran was more pro-women… THAT statement does not mean I am pro-muslim or anything else. What I learnt from these two was just that we need to open our eyes, because if we do not, the media will poison our view before we know it i.e. we have to look at things from the other perspective first, before making firm judgements. I know people will say Michael Moore is still media, but he presented a different point of view to the news we were being fed. No-one who witnessed 9/11 could think about it without an emotional response, it was a truly terrible event – but finding the real criminals who orchestrated it should be the priority, not falling for any smoke and mirrors act. Do I follow the conspiracy theory? maybe, or its just that the truth, for me, needs further verification.
btw I am still anti-abortion despite being a rape victim myself. I still shake when I think about it. However, thanfully I didn’t have to make a decision on abortion. I agree that in those circumstances, it may be necessary. But there are those that are on their third termination, crying their eyes out, but still coming back for more…..unfortunately, there is a limit to the number of times it can be done, and then you are at risk of never carrying a child to term. There is the waste. There are many families struggling to have children still.
If you Americans want me to butt out, then I will, but I am perfectly happy for you to criticise my government (hell, I do it on a regular basis!!) We show an interest because America is a world leader, and what happens to you has an impact on us.
kevlar i find myself agreeing with you this morning on several fronts. Palin is a distraction and why do we, as americans seem to always end up voting for the lessor of two evils? sigh…..
My needs as an american are simple: i want the freedom to succeed through hard work and perserverence,the freedom to say what i think, worship who i wish and make decisions about my own body mind and spirit with out the govts input.I want the right to eat good wholesome food that has had no tampering by science, govt or private industry for my “own good”. I want the person that i have chosen to serve as head manager and chief to have the foresight to protect our vary valuable and limited resourses for our future generations.
the most important issue facing our country right now is the economy…. when peoples livelyhoods are threatened bad desicions are made in a knee-jerk reaction to ease the burdens of society. These desicions have far reaching and devistateing effects for our futures.
as for the qualities needed to run such a country as ours? well they are endless arent they? its trite i know but an intelegent, selfless, honest individual would be a good start. man, that job has got to suck though you know? its not like any of them can get through the quagmire that is political washington and have the energy and the clarity of mind to get even a scosh of the things done that need doing…....it would be like running underwater…..anyhow id like to have the audacity to hope but im a pretty practical and somewhat sceptical person…..guess we will all see how this unfolds!
INDEPENDENT PARTIES – So here’s a question I pose:
Will voting for these other parties take votes away from ‘the lesser evil’(as some call it), thus keeping the current administration in power???
I do really respect all these small independent parties like the green party and feel most have good intentions. But don’t these parties take votes away from the democratic party? The Republican party actually helped financed Ralph Nadar which is partly a reason they won in 2004.
like omshanti, I really feel our economy is in serious danger. Every day on my ride to work, I get to hear about another bank or huge company needing bailouts from the govt on VPR/NRP. How about AIG today?!!!! How are we as tax payers supposed to pay for this when as a country we can barely keep up with the accruing interest on trillions of dollars of debt that is financing the war in Iraq. Doesn’t it scare people that China basically owns us? Another four years of the current administration could really shatter this country if things don’t change. Being a finacial analyst and cost accountant for 16 years I certainly know the importance of being fiscally responsible and balancing budgets.
Here’s an metaphor of what the Bush Administration has done and is still doing to this country with its out-of-control spending: A person maxes out a $5,0000 credit card, applies for another one and maxes out a $7,0000 credit card, applies for another one and maxes out a $10,0000 credit card, applies for another one and this time maxes out a $9,000 credit card. This does not stop and this person sees no end in site to this vicious cycle. How does he keep successfully applying for new credit cards? He manages to steel from his friends/co-workers in order to pay the minimum balance. Meanwhile these credit cards have accrued so much interest that his debt is compounding at breathtaking rates…..eventually he will crash and burn and declare bankruptcy…..This is the state of our country right now. Sounds ludicrious right? But we know it’s true…. Should we start learning to speak Mandarin Chineese :-)
And the funniest thing yesterday coming into work was Sarah Palin saying she was going to revamp wallstreet and turn things around!!! She’s barely qualified to run a local bake sale and she’s talking about taking on wallstreet???!!!...
so funny when it was her administration that decided to ease banking rules and deregulate investment banking on wallstreet. I have a co-worker in the cube next to me from from wallstreet who admits that his company once gave a loan to a dog…way to go!!!
Here’s my question to Palin supporters: besides being pro-life (which we’ve already beaten to death on this thread – no pun intended), why do you support her? Do you feel the whole country should embrace her views on god? Should we become a nation of one christian religion b/c that’s the impression I’m getting. If a person is not a super religious christian, he/she is denouced or overlooked by conservative republicans… Should other cultures denouce their religious and cultural values and become Chistion and highly religious like Sarah Palin?? This is the vibe I’m getting and have always gotten with conservative Repulicans, an elitist feeling…it seems like Sarah Palin with her ultra conservative religious ideals will separate and divide this country even further than it already is. As a ‘religious independent’ I myself feel personally alienated by Sarah Palin and her scary brand of conservatism…
Another question for Palin supporters: do you think tax breaks for the wealthiest Americans and corporations will help this country? Seems trickle down economics are not working? I don’t undertand how people can be so loyal to a party that doesn’t honestly represent the common middle and lower classes, minorities, struggling single mothers, and other cultures….
Were people blind when they watched the republican convention and saw a homogeonous crowd of white older, well dressed, upper middle class, dressed to the T with women wearing pearls and such. And how about the democratic convention with a true mixture of an American society with all kinds of races and cultures present, rich and poor….
The funny thing is that I’m an independant (but will vote for Obama)and feel that no party could ever be perfect and both parties have flaws..however it pains me to watch the current adminstration slowy destroy this country….
I mean no harm or disrepect to any conservative members on this site. I’m just stating my feelings. I truly want to see things turn around so that everyone can live a good life like myself (and I so grateful everyday for all that I have). It just pains me sometimes when I’m fussing over organic papayas, or seeking out expensive raw nuts and so many people in this country are experiencing such exteme poverty and struggling to feed their families
better go do some work so I can keep my job too :-)
Wow! Lots of food for thought is being presented here. Very interesting.
Thanks for everyone’s input.
kevlar I must say that the Zeitgeist movie that jkdsoccer801 mentioned in another forum was very compelling. Can’t say that I’d be too incredibly surprised if some very powerful people in our government had a hand in it all. Big time Profit is being made through the war. Halliburton/KBR etc….
omshanti I second your answers given above (OH – and thank you for replying about the 100 items! I checked it out in the other forum “Into the Wild” :) )
JoyceH – very insightful, thanx – I can’t believe that loan to a dog! Unreal!
PS: dagneytaggart I really appreciate your support yesterday btw, but I believe it had been a misunderstanding…. tricky topics and all.
hello? i did ask if you wanted me to butt out, I would..I would prefer that than be invisible on this thread :(
Thanks greenghost for this passionate thread (sometimes nice to add a little spice to things)
I believe we ALL on goneraw want to see the country and the world a better place to live. I want a prosperous country for everyone so women feel they can raise a child, have healthcare, kids don’t have to die in Iraq, animals don’t have to suffer in factory farms or die in order to entertain the rich guy with the big gun….everyone can live and worship as they please or choose, everyone can get married….
Debs60 – I think everyone is welcome here. I love to hear opinions from people living in other countries. I lived in Ireland for a year 05/06 and got to experience first hand how much Europeans disapproved of the Bush Administration and the war….. :-)
can all these people be wrong? the majority of an entire continent??
Thanks JoyceH that means a lot to me. Hope you liked Ireland, I haven’t been there but my daughter says its beautiful. Sad its had its own problems. Thanks for replying.
Debs60- I know I really enjoy hearing from other people in different areas and countries. We Americans are already so isolated from what the rest of the world is really thinking and doing because of our media conglomeration. (Maybe true in other countries too, I don’t know, but I know it sure is true here.) Another way for us to keep growing. So I appreciate you sharing with us. And anyone else who wishes to share their opinion with us. We all have the right to have opinions. It’s all good. :)
Thanks, Aspire, when it comes down to it, it is the individuals that can ruin the country, not the country and its population. I have witnessed stuff on the telly here regarding our government and thought ‘wow, that will hit the headlines tomorrow’ and then tomorrow comes and there is nothing. I suspect someone intervened so that the headline was sidelined. I don’t like it. I think Blair was totally colluding with Bush, for what ends, I still don’t know really. Maybe oil, maybe something else in addition. Funnily enough, Blair couldn’t stop the media showing his trip to the troops in Iraq and then saying he was grateful that they (the troops) were – quote – ‘still instrumental in finding the weapons of mass distraction…er, destruction.’ How true the first time! Sorry this leads away from Palin, but glad you can understand we are worried here too.
Oh yes, sorry Debs60 – I didn’t mean to snub you! It was my oversight.
You are certainly welcome to share your thoughts and it’s nice to get more global perspective.
Cheers greenghost, I was worried you all thought i was still a troll…..!
Wow, this thread has doubled overnight!
First of all I must say that jaymz72 comment was absolutely awfull! I can’t believe he just said that. What a character???!!!
After some of the replies to my note I thought I am the only one seeing this world so differently. I’m glad there are other people too on this site who are open to different point of views.
Debs60- I didn’t know anyone thought you were a troll or why someone would think that. Also: it is bigger than just oil. Control of the oil and the countries, overall, are parts of the puzzle, but it is bigger than that in the end. These people think they are better than us “lowly” regular humans. They seriously think differently than we, normal, people do. They do not, or cannot, empathize with others feeling pain, nor will they allow themsleves to realize what the true significance of the harm they commit is doing to our world, not to mention most people. But again, they do not care about “most” people. They feel they are better than “most” and therefor justified in getting “more,” having “all,” and being in control over us lowly peons.
Have you seen this video? Along the same lines as “Zeitgesit,” but I think it is even better. It actually mentions what we can do, us regular people, and NEED to do, ultimately, at the end of it unlike the other docs I’ve seen (which they are still good, just not complete):
“Esoteric Agenda” – 2 hrs, but quite fascinating info
Debs60 – I don’t know who did (if anyone did?), but I never thought you were a troll. That would be silly. :)
ikn thank you for sharing the link above and thanks to everyone else for their links as well. Cheers!
I only inferred the troll thing cos I thought no-one was talking to me :( but its fine, I was just being neurotic…..love the peace thing its just what we should focus on, all of us together as a world. When I got a moment tho, will look at the vid, Aspire, thanks!
Oh no Debs60 I didn’t mean that you were silly!
If it ever came out that way I would only intend it in a nice, joking way.
I’m sorry. I feel like I’m putting my foot in my mouth!...
I think I’m the one who’s neurotic.
Cheers & Peace to you! ;)
Not taken that way at all Greenghost, Take ur foot out of your mouth right now, lol! We all wanting the same thing at the end of the day….Cheers and peace to you too, m8.
Wow Rawleen, I was stating a fact that the VERY TRUE statements you made were comparing two very different positions. That is ALL I said. And I further clarified by saying that Palin could be a heartbeat (meaning McCain’s health) away from being President….
You seem to have missed my point in addition to making a judgement about where my concerns and attentions are or are not and judgments on who I do or do not support! By you asking me this:
And with the way our country is right now, arenâ€™t you the least bit concerned????? Arenâ€™t you paying attention to whatâ€™s going on?
so who is being critical here?
If you truly read my post, you will see that it is not indicative AT ALL to my positions or support!! My point was, I’m sure we can find even MORE ways to bring a good argument for this subject that will cause those who support certain sides (current administration, McCain/Palin) to really think about WHAT and WHO they are supporting.
Is it not interesting how at times our posts
can be so misunderstood/wrongly interpreted.
It just goes to show it is all in perception.
Mammamilk – I understood what you wrote
in your earlier post and the point you were
trying to make.
On threads like this, I think it is quite easy
to get excited and misread/misinterpret anothers point of view.
But it is great to see different perceptions on the world.
One of the reasons, I Love GoneRaw!!!
I just so happened to cut and paste your exact text into this box when I was commenting, and still had it to paste since I haven’t used the computer since. Because when I went back to read what you wrote, you totally edited!!!
Here’s the EXACT words from what you intially said:
“but didnâ€™t quite hit it with the fullness of point that it was intended. Of course, as has been stated in media, Palin IS one â€œheartbeatâ€ away from being President should McCain be elected”
That is the only phrase I cut and paste because that is what I was responding to that I disagreed with, but I can tell from re-reading your post that you made other changes as well. Why would you do that?
Why would you go back and edit your comments, after reading what my response was? After your edit, yeah it was much clearer your position, but not initially when you stated “didn’t quite hit it with the fullness of point intended.”
It’s okay that we disagree or don’t see eye to eye clearly, but I’m a little confused.
Wow, Rawleen, you seem really upset. I’m sure that mammamilk didn’t do anything intentional. I’m sorry that you are feeling slighted, but don’t worry, no one is judging you here. I’m interested in what you have to say :)
Oh, no, just realized I’m doing it again.
I once belonged to a myspace group where people would post their artwork and then everyone would rip it apart and tell eachother how much it sucked. They really derived joy from it! It drove me crazy because while I can be critical, it really bothers me sometimes to see people being mean to one another. Needless to say, they told me to stop being the “myspace mommy with milk and cookies” and booted me out of the group..oy….
anyway, just realized I was in danger of being labeled the Gone Raw Mommy with Almond Mylk and Dates and thought I should come on here and apologize :) Sorry, sorry, disagree away and I’ll try and stay out of it :)
I’ll add a little note about Palin… a friend told me she has a very young child with downs syndrome. Does it seem odd to any other mums out there that she’s running for VP with a little one at home who needs her?
I have to say…I have been following this
thread since the beginning…like I am sure
a lot of us behind the scenes have been doing.
I understood the post Rawleen and Mamamilk
both posted. However, I must add that I read
both your posts (on page 5) last night.
Before either one of you posted today.
I do not see any editing in earlier posts.
This is the same stuff I read last night.
I could be wrong, but then again I am
sure all our perceptions could possibly
be really off.
I am sure no one on this thread truly means to
hurt or intentionally cause trouble. There have
been many misread/misinterpreted
posts. A great example would be Kevlar and Greenghost
on that one slap-happy, lovin night. But in the end,
they step up and apologized. So no worries peeps!
You both wrote great posts.
I say it once again, it is great to see the different
perceptions of the world on this thread. Different minds,
One reason of many, We should All LOVE Gone Raw!!!
We are fortunate to have such a place!