16 month old teeth dissolving/crumbling off --- HELP
We are vacationing in Spain and won`t be back in the US until mid-August. I already took her to a few dentists here. They all have told me so far not to worry because they are not her permanent teeth and to do any work they would have to put her under general anaesthesia (which they don`t advise because she`s so young and light, weighs 20 lbs). In the meantime, I`m going a little crazy because her teeth are disapearing by the day and it wouldn`t be good for anyone to go without teeth for 6 years+ until the adult teeth come in. It also worries me how/if this will affect her roots and consequently her permanent teeth.
I`ve been told her teeth are this way because of demineralization, nightnursing, and genetics. I`ve been told to feed her bone broths, organ meats, milk, cheese, yogurt, and ridiculous amounts of butter. I`ve been doing that and it`s not working for me. I can keep doing it if that`s what I have to do to help her, but I find it so terrible to feed her these things and the smell of them while cooking is very unpleasant to me. She has always had a green smoothie a day --- she loves her green smoothies. She`s never had juice. Just water or a little bit of tea. For her smoothies, I use 1 banana, 1 orange, water, and the freshest greens from the store (kale, spinach, chard, dandelion, etc.). I also add other seasonal fruits. I`ve also removed all gluten from her diet.
I`ve been trying to get some xylitol gel for her, but they don`t sell it here and I`ve only found 1 place that will ship here and the shipping is more than I can afford.
Have any of you had experience with this??? Any advice?? Please help!
I'm not sure but certain acid foods are bad for babies teeth. Like apples and tea and oranges , i do not know, just a guess like your doctors are doing.
Try this, try that, they don't know either.
Why no breast feeding , that would be the best!!!
This baby needs MILK!!!
Yes, even though you are vegan, MILK IS FOR BABIES so it is ok to feed your baby breast milk or formula.
She´s been exclusively breastfed since birth and started solids a few weeks before turning a year. I don´t know what you mean by "this baby needs MILK" or "MILK IS FOR BABIES"....do you mean cow`s milk? Nowhere in my post did I mention I have weaned her, so I don`t understand where you`re coming from with this. She`s been nursing on demand since birth.
One of the dentists mentioned nightnursing as a possible cause...I don`t know if you are familiar with that. It`s when you nurse your baby on demand through the night (we cosleep). And inevitably, some milk is left in the baby`s mouth during all the hours they are asleep (around 11+hrs for my daughter). Nightnursing doesn`t mean they only nurse at night. There is information out there that says any kind of food left in the mouth for that many hours is bad. But there is also information that says breastmilk has bacteria fighting properties that keep caries at bay. So some dentists are pro and some against nightnursing.
The article from your link doesn`t provide any guidelines. It just says don`t give babies too much citric acid, but doesn`t say how much is too much.
That is so horrible - I'm so sorry! My daughter is just over 3 1/2 and about a year ago she had dental surgery to get a bunch of cavities filled and they had to silver cap one - it still makes me cry to think about it. I wasn't able to breastfeed b/c of an actual medical issue (I cried b/c I felt so bad) and I gave her formula for too long, and to get her to bed at night, plus she's genetically doomed to have bad teeth. In any case, I heard that breastmilk does not have the same effect.
Can you leave and go home immediately?
Also, I know someone who's son had a specific issue that caused a similar problem. She's vegan but not raw - I'll link her to this post and see if she has any help.
Thanks appifanie. It would be great to hear from someone with similar experiences.
At what age did your daughter have surgery? Was she in pain afterwards?
I`m not comfortable at all with having my little one put under general anaesthesia, and even more so in a foreign country. It`s terrible when not one doctor can tell me why or what to do.....all they are doing is guessing. And they are all so unimpressed by it saying "oh, it`s just baby teeth!" I`m starting to feel like I`m over reacting.
She was about 2 1/2. It was so sad to watch her go under and she cried when she woke up (I cried more than her overall), but she was just confused. She didn't ever seem to be in pain at all. She did get freaked out by the sight of hospitals for awhile, but she got over it okay.
And you're not over-reacting! As soon as they told me how bad it was, I CRIED - I felt like such a failure - how could I let that happen to my baby? The dentist was really nice about it at least. And it must be very frustrating that they can't even tell you why it's happening. It definitely doesn't seem diet related, and I don't believe at all that the crap they told you to feed her is at all helpful, but I totally understand doing whatever they tell you will help - I actually use the fluoride gel they told me to use everyday (a few times a week though) and we have a xylitol toothpaste now. I'm so scared to take her in for her checkup because I'm afraid it's going to be bad again :(
Thanks Appifanie, for sharing all that! I`m sure it was really hard for your little one and your whole family to go through.
I am considering going back to the US before planned. I`m going to go see 1 more dentist and hope s/he has something concrete to say. All I`ve read so far indicates to vitamin D deficiency during gestation (when the baby teeth enamel forms) and up to 9 months after birth (when the enamel strengthens). It just seems odd because we live in AZ (sunny all year long) and spend a lot of time outdoors. I was going on daily hikes and backpacking up until my 6th month of pregnancy, took my baby out in her bike trailer starting at 3 months, etc. We did just have a very long winter up in Flagstaff, but even then I was taking her snowshoeing with me occassionally. Vit D deficiency leads to demineralization, and there are biological causes as well as nutritional, such as hyperparathyroidism and celiac disease (gluten intolerance). I hate having to learn this kind of thing first hand!
Did your daughter`s doctors ever find a cause of her decay? Did they run any blood tests to rule out vit D defficiency?
They didn't run any tests and we got a check up with her ped before the surgery. I don't think that was a problem - I'm pretty sure it was the formula/genetic combo.
And thanks! It was hard on me - just me. Husband is in the Army and was away, not much family.
Good luck getting real info!!
Was out of town when you posted to the mom's group about this, but since you are on here too, I'll respond here! I am so sorry dear I is having tooth problem, and wish you were here for some hugs! We have been incorporating Horsetail tincture from Winter Sun into our diet to help strengthen/rebuild our teeth, and it has been working great! It is very high in Silica, which is good for teeth. Some other thoughts that I had were to check her biotin levels. Low biotin can also cause some dental issues due to decreased mineral absorption. Also, even though not vegan, I have heard that raw milk can help. And, increasing calcium through raw tahini, adding sesame seeds to smoothies, & almond milk. These are all high calcium raw foods. Let's see, what else....the oxalic acid from some of the dark leafies have sometimes caused calcium leaching in some of the articles that I have read, though it is very rare. Perhaps stick to dark greens that don't have the oxalic acid. Or, again though not raw, gently steam the greens awhile to neutralize them. Hope some of this is useful. I will keep looking/reading around and post anything else that I find.
Bigs Hugs to you and Little I and can't wait to see you again!
I am so sorry--this is so sad (and as a parent, I am sure it is heart-wrenching).
I have done some research on water--and flouride in water and all the problems it can cause for some people. It may not be a factor, but it may, so I would look into that. Also, it may not be one thing but a combination of factors that lead up to this.
I know it does not provide complete comfort that these a not her permanent teeth; she still has many years before her adult teeth come in. There has to be something that can help now.
Do let us know how you make out.
Hi Sunny! Thanks so much for that info! I will get the tincture from Winter Sun when I get back to Flagstaff. I am staying in a very small town on the Spanish countryside and the food varieties sold locally are extremely limited. The only dark leafy greens they grow/sell here are spinach and chard. So I can`t provide much variety for her green smoothies. This part of Spain is Americanizing with their diet, unfortunately.....produce departments have less than a dozen items; so sad. Almost everything is frozen ready to eat, out of a can, to pop in the microwave, etc... :(
I guess I should also update on the situation. I got Ramiel Nagel`s Cure Tooth Decay book and read it in 2 days. Due to the lack of food diversity and availability (and out of sheer desperation), I have incorporated the adviced dietary changes. I have cut out gluten, have been cooking bone broths, organ meats, have used very little fish (I am afraid of all the toxins in them), have been using butter, feeding her 1 egg per day, milk, cheese, yogurt, green smoothies, and have reduced her fruit intake. She`s still nursing strong. I`ve cut out all processed foods ----- I believe this might have caused the problem in the first place. We never ate anything processed in the US but for the first few weeks we were here, I let my mom feed her "junk food." Not the super bad stuff, but super sweet things like flan, natilla, and ready frozen foods (my mom doesn`t cook and I felt like a guest), etc. I had to sit my mom down and talk to her quite a few times before making her understand that she is my daughter and I say what goes when it concerns her diet, as my mom was still sneaking her chocolate! It`s so hard living with someone on the Spanish version of the SAD and trying to keep my little one safe. But I think it finally sank in for her. At first, I didn`t believe the temporary dietary change would be able to affect her teeth so MUCH, but after reading Nagel`s book, I`ve come to believe that it is a possibility (he has had it happen with his daughter).
I`m happy to report that the tooth decay seems to have stopped. The 2 teeth that had crumbled off have stopped crumbling. So she has 2 little numbs, and where they used to be dark brown, they have turned a creamish color. I am hoping with all my being that she will develop dentin and enamel over them. Two other teeth have discoloration, her 2 top front teeth, and I was afraid those would crumble off too. But so far so good. I think it`s amazing that the diet change has worked so quickly; it`s been less than a month.
I also spoke with a pediatric dentist in Flagstaff, and from my description he said he wouldn`t change his travel plans if he were in my position. I was thinking about cutting our trip short to get her treated in the US. But he just said to watch out for a fever (signaling infection) and pain -- she doesn`t have either. And to make an appointment when we return.
Sunny, I would love to get together with you when we come back to the US. I feel like we`re going to need help getting back into our mostly raw mostly vegan diet. Making sure we include all the minerals she needs.
Ffantazsia, my first thought was fluoride, but our water supply is not fluoridated.